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Royal Knights injured faster than non-defensive troops?

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Multiplat, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. Multiplat

    Multiplat Helpful Citizen

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    I have been playing around with troops for a while now and I noticed an odd trend. Why are royal knights injured 3x faster than trophy hunts and pugskateers? If royal knights are meant for defense then shouldnt they last longer than a troop with no defensive capability?

    Example:
    800k royal knights home
    26k-30k will be injured an attack

    800k trophy hunts home
    7k-9k will be injured an attack.

    Same attacker within the same 30 minutes. Shouldnt that be reversed? I understand wanting to make walls drop faster but a troop specifically designed to defend shouldnt be injured so rapidly.
     
  2. Tiashue

    Specialist

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    Those numbers seem a little far apart, but the gap is justified by the mechanics. Lets start with the fundamentals of how battle mechanics work.

    Terminology: losses = injured + killed

    • Your initial losses are calculated based on dragons and allies (including research), you versus them
    • The loss caps and toughness are applied next
      • The loss caps were introduced after beta to prevent extreme numbers of losses in certain edge cases, these have roll over implications on the general battle mechanics for losses
    • The losses for each side are calculated based on a "hidden numbers" but basically both sides' losses are scaled proportionally to how much the side that needed to be scaled down is scaled down.
    [​IMG]
    Attacker power on the left in white and losses in purple (abstract)

    • If one sides Dragon and Ally bonus is higher than the other, then they take additional losses because toughness is treated as only being 2x higher than the other side's while power scales all the way up.
    A combination of all of these affect the scenario you described in the original post.
     
  3. dlz9345X

    dlz9345X Liked Citizen

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    Basically, what I believe is happening, is that losses is proportional to the total strength of the defense/offense. The 800k knights seem like they are getting injured more because they provide more defense (About three times as much strength). Don’t think loss/wins affect troop loss rate either.

    My tests:
    50k knights (9 mil def) Vs. 9 mil attack: 3,703 injured
    50k huntress (3 mil def) Vs. 3 mil attack: 1,235 injured
    150k huntress (9 mil def) Vs. 9 mil attack: 3,704 injured

    So basically, troop amount has nothing to do with rate of injury
     
    #3 dlz9345X, Jun 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  4. Multiplat

    Multiplat Helpful Citizen

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    I understand what ya'll are saying but I think there may need to be an overhaul here. It is just crazy that knights are injured so much faster than the other types of troops just because they offer more defensive strength. :/
     
  5. Tiashue

    Specialist

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    You are missing the fact (without seeing more detailed analysis of what the actual battle reports are) that I believe the 3700 is your max los cap for your encounter that you described. Your 9mil def versus someone else's Xmil attack. If you look at the excel spreedsheet I posted above along with my bullet points that it makes sense that you would, if capped, have the same number of total losses despite the difference in troop counts (50k knights versus 150 hunts at 9mil defence).
     
  6. Tiashue

    Specialist

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    Battle mechanics in this game are weird. And there is a lot of things that effect them. I agree they were poorly and complicatedly done and I have spend probably hundreds of hours in discussion with devs over the two years I played this game to get them to change certain things.
     
  7. PopularMonster

    PopularMonster Citizen

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    All women are queens.
     
    Regigigas likes this.
  8. dlz9345X

    dlz9345X Liked Citizen

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    While I know my explanation is definetely too simple and yours is probably correct, in my tests, I simply attacked just barely enough to win (basically same attack as defense; edits for more clarity on original post). I as well tested it after (attack with much higher strength) and those numbers are not the caps of losses. I as well removed my dragons from wall, but I didn’t sell allies or factor research into account.

    In my tests, I believe loss is scaled based on enemy strength in the attack, plus the other factors you described.

    And for Multiplat, I don’t know exactly what tests you used, but I am assuming that what you did was attack 800k royal knights (let’s say 150 mil def) with 150mil attack and 800k trophy huntress (let’s say 50 mil def) with 50 mil def. if you didn’t, then please let us know and with more detail about your experiment.

    What I am proposing towards your concern is that knights do not injure faster than huntresses/pugs. Instead, you are just being attacking the knights with more force, which means that more knights should in turn be injured more.

    Another test:
    50k huntress (3mil def) Vs. 3mil attack: 1148 injured
    50k knights (9mil def) Vs. 3 mil attack: 1142 injured
     
  9. Multiplat

    Multiplat Helpful Citizen

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    I used the same attack during the test. The defense was what changed.

    Repeating...

    Example:
    800k royal knights home
    26k-30k were injured with each attack

    800k trophy hunts home
    7k-9k were injured with each attack.

    Neither the dragons nor ally bonus for the attack or defender changed during this. The only difference were the type of troop home. This is why I am confused as to why the royal knights (with far higher defense) would be injured 3x faster than trophy hunts (Which have very little defense).

    When I look at troops, I would assume troops made to defend would have the ability to survive more than a troop which is designed to only monster slay. Tiashue explained it really well but this does show that there is a very broken mechanic here which needs to be reviewed.

    I doubt ATA cares though. Too busy releasing updates to the invite system instead of the top 100 releases the player base wants. o_O
     
  10. Regigigas

    Regigigas New Citizen

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    Ye pvp in this game is broken that’s all I can say...
     

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